Saturn in Scorpio

While Mars and Pluto are in tropical Capricorn they are forced into hard labour because Capricorn tells them to work hard, to dig, to make solid walls and to use all experience and skill possible in order to win for Mars, and to transform and change for Pluto, Saturn when placed in their country is not so comfortable with his challenges. Capricorn is the place where Mars is exalted. Mars as a fighter and an aggressor is victorious through taking defensive measures. Mars builds walls, and wears thick body armour while under Capricorn´s leadership, it fights a land battle using the hardiest of terrain to its advantage whether this be hill fort or mountain.

Saturn when in tropical Scorpio faces similar challenges, but while Mars is content to fight defensive battles on behalf of Capricorn, Saturn when placed in Scorpio is peregrine, having only terms in the last three degrees. Saturn is forced by Scorpio into donning the mantle of war, which it dislikes, and fighting for its survival in some of the most inhospitable terrain. The nature of Scorpio is that of water and so Saturn is forced in Scorpio´s terrain into using and utilising water in order to construct its edifices.

Saturn is not a fiery hot tempered fighter like Mars, nor is he the mysterious invisible yet powerful figure that Pluto, or Hades represents though he does appreciate it when that power is beneficial to his undertakings. The trait of Saturn is to be still, it is to be still, to meditate, mediate and to take responsibility, he is in no way a fighter, but a decision maker. The nature of Scorpio is to kill, to destroy, to eliminate, but also to give renewal and life through its secret processes.

Old men do not fight wars, young men with their blood up and their ideals fired up fight wars. Old men pass laws and constitutions, not only constitutions, but they draw the blueprint for the institutions which are to be built and which will serve to protect them, their families and their traditions for generations to come. Old men care for their honour, for respect, for maintaining the respect of their children and their family name. And so under the beam of Scorpio the old man must regenerate his burnt down and destroyed tradition, his church, his town hall, his heritage.

In one way Saturn´s opportunity in Scorpio is to have a say in making a brand new city plan, in making a new name for a family which was wiped out by natural disaster or by plague, or by the afflictions and mortifications which the tropical sign of Scorpio has a freedom to bring. Saturn has age, has wisdom and wishes to meditate and to take pride in the achievements and the name that he has inherited or worked hard to raise, but Mars is the commander of Saturn in this placement, Mars clads Saturn in war armour, and thankfully Saturn does not have to fight during the day time Sun as in Mars´s  Aries daytime rulership, where he is in fall, but during Mars´s nightime rule where Saturn´s cold nature is more accommodated for.

The idea of Saturn fighting is a difficult one especially with his exaltation being in the peace making tropical Libra. Saturn in fact is not strong enough to fight, to kill and to maim as Mars and Pluto would so have it in Scorpio. Instead Saturn is seen to act defensively building not so much a wall, but a castle with a mote, with a water feature which is a barrier that is fixed and which is very difficult to destroy or remove.

In psychological terms of course the water is akin to creating an island, and so for any would be attacker the mote serves to destroy their emotional morale and forces them to give up on any form of attack barring a year long siege. Saturn in Scorpio is not destined to lose battles as it is destined to lose in Aries, where the walls are knocked down by firepower and overwhelming force. But one this is for sure in Scorpio the battles that Saturn does take up are the ones which are brought about because of the most abysmal abuse that is taken out against it.

The trouble for Saturn when travelling through the tough country of Scorpio is that it is hard to know where and when an attack is going to come, although it is fully aware that an attack is coming at some point.

It is said by modern astrology that this placement confers a strong desire nature, and this is true since it is Scorpio which creates desire and Martian qualities in Saturn rather than the idea of Saturn dampening and blocking Scorpio´s natural energy.

The attacks to which Saturn must defend against in Scorpio are vicious and are in pursual of Saturn´s total destruction and death. However Scorpio also gives Saturn power in this position. It is not the power which tired old Saturn is most happy with, but it is a power nonetheless which allows it to defeat any enemy, the power of Saturn here is both control over nuclear weapons, it is that psychological advantage of the mote, but also of resources which are unseen, and unknown even to Saturn until the moment of dire need. Another scenario for Saturn here is that of being overwhelmed by forces which create a dire emotional situation for which it is not prepared. This is the emotional shaking which leads to emotional self control, control of emotion, control of desire, control of Mars´s anger, lust, though of course “control” does not mean repression or negation, it means control, aqueducts control water to bring it and satisfy the city. Control here means that Saturn focuses the anger and lust of Mars polishing them and making them work better. A stone aqueduct of pure water as opposed to a dirty stream is one possibility.

Saturn is either too young, or too old for the experience of death, the fear of which is a potent and destructive force for Saturn´s inexperience. But destruction is definitely a part of Saturn´s experience here, it will be a destruction and a devastation that causes a great deal of anxiety and desolation. This destruction can take form usually in the guise of the previous generation wiping out resources, or of the previous generation dying or disappearing in order to bring about misery.

Saturn in essence does not want war, he does not want death either. Scorpio brings both of these. Saturn wants Sunday Roast with the family, turn up at church followed by whatever important and meaningful business which he carries out with respect through the rest of the week.


People with Saturn in Scorpio: Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, Margaret Thatcher, Elizabeth II, Charles I, Louis XIII, William Lilly, H.G. Wells, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Marilyn Monroe, Nicolas Sarkozy, Bruce Willis

89 responses

2 03 2009

Very true description. I have my Saturn in Scorp.. I tend to be ruthless at times and it hurts everyone. I am Taurus Sun sign and trying to have peace with ppl i know. But its really hard

17 07 2009
Taylor Kennedy

I have saturn in scorpio as well. I got Sun in Libra and Moon in Gemini

28 12 2009
Cobble Stone

I am a saturn scorpio with pluto conjunct, and that gives you a double saturn scorpio. Its getting to the point where i’m keenly aware that i can’t trust anyone. betrayals have been constant in my life since i was born. when i was younger, though, i was absolutely devastated by the betrayals….now that im almost at my saturn return i am keenly aware that no one is to be trusted. In essence, as cold as it sounds, this makes the struggle much easier. I KNOW that i will be betrayed. I KNOW human beings are incredibly petty and treacherous, and i’ve learned to dodge the brunt of betrayal. The hardest part of it was about two years ago, when the betrayals had crippled my ability to love, but i’ve learned to love with such total detachment that here today gone tomorrow doesn’t sound too bad to me. I’ve actually got well over two thousand life stories in my head at this point,….people tell me everything. I used to be addicted to heroin, my boyfriend used to beat me, etc. Then they blink and say wow, i’ve never told anyone that before. I keep secrets better than a priest so it really doesn’t matter, people can feel that. I also, after having heard so many life stories, can typically read someone in less than a few minutes. The challenge in my life was that my mindset was to solely focus on the negative of a human being, ie ‘i’ve been with three guys, well, four but really three’ catching a statement like that, and remembering to consciously block out that she just told me she’d been raped. Immediately the shackles used to go up— is this going to be a decent long-term friend, etc etc. Now i will still catch all of that, and much much more, and drive myself to focus on the beautifull and unique traits of this unrivaled human being, as we all are. taming the scorpio jealousy and its unconscious manifestations was a really big deal, but i’m done with that. I also have to understand that i will be betrayed, non-negotiable, again and again. the betrayals force me to travel and the travel to learn. i’m twenty six. i’ve moved thirty+ times and probably have had well over sixty jobs, all because of betrayal. Sometimes i wonder how old i’ll be when i’m forty, but as long as i can still love, i really don’t mind.

29 12 2009

Interesting thoughts. If you are twenty six Saturn in Scorp is likely to have Pluto conjunct in Libra. If it´s in Scorp it will be a 9 degree wide conjunction, as it is in my own natal chart.

I understand about betrayal too, having Saturn also in Scorpio. However, I believe in the better side of humanity, and although the natural instinct is a la 1984, to make others suffer instead of yourself, there is hope for us.

You must ask yourself, how likely am I to betray, and do I think the same or similar thoughts to the people who are close to me?

Build up trust. Stay in the same place. Stay with the same people, the more intimacy you have with a place or person and the more time you invest in them, the less likely they are to up sticks and leave. It requires giving space though at the same time, in order to avoid the jealousy that us Scorpios attract. Jealousy is the primary cause of betrayal.

The only thing I can think of is the cold war in relation to your situation. You must have defenses against betrayal, plans of defense “just in case” and having that there will guarentee that trust is not betrayed, but it must be mutual. For example you marry someone, you make sure that you both bring the same financial steaks to the marriage. There may be love, but if the love goes, then neither party stands to get more from the bargain.

Tell me what other aspects are made to Saturn in Scorpio, and also if there are other Scorpio Planets and their aspects.

10 12 2013
cobbler's thumb

I came across your comment and it struck me what you have written there. I have saturn in scorpio 7th house, sun in Taurus 1st house, also saturn conj pluto and I just had my saturn return this year, coming along with scorpio-taurus eclipses in my 7th/1st house to make it more magical. Betrayal, abusive relationships and revenge have been the themes of my life. I cheated on one of my exbf with his best friend who I was going out about 6-7 years ago, and I got the same back, This guy went off with my best friend I was living with at that time and together with them all my social circle, it messed up my head big time, put me off with love for a good few years and I also moved out of the country, but ive sworn on my life i will never do this again to anyone,I could at least understand why it had happen. it affected me on such a deep level that I could not get myself to trust anyone for a good few years until I meet this girl 2 years ago, who shares her life story with me, she’s been raped, she’s been through abusive relationships it built a bridge between me and her and I was happy to find a “new friend” after years of being a loner and I decided to open myself up, and share my deepest feelings and secrets with her. She’s been good fun for awhile until last month when bang she hits me(around the solar eclipse in nov) where I was most sensitive, she goes off with the guy I was obsessively in loved (I can only blame Saturn in Scorpio for my obsession with this guy) the kind of obsession which has been going on for about 2 years now and I still feel my knees going numb and my words are not coming out of my mouth when I see him so my old demons are coming out of the closet but this time I have not betrayed!!!! On the other side for the whole 2013 I have had a very hard time from people, co workers, housemates and acquaintances and the ones I mistrusted more turned out to be the most trustworthy by now will see what other rabbit holes im going down next year, im ready for more psychedelic experiences.
My experience with Saturn in Scorpio is that we have to learn the hard way, every time I took my revenge I paid ten times harder and it takes a good deal of self control to not let the devil seething inside of me take over. I have to say that as scary as it seems I love the depth of the experiences I have been through since saturn is transiting scorpio, it fascinates me even if it triggers my worst fears it also makes me laugh.
I wish I could at least learn a way of dealing with people, it seems that every time I expose myself or get intimate with someone I get stabbed in my back. Im hoping by the end of saturn’s transit through scorpio to learn a better way of dealing with life.

30 12 2009

i am helplessly attracted to men with saturn in scorpio..just pulled to them like crazy! but they push and pull and can’t open up and committ and it hurts me so much…not sure why i am so attracted to them but i love scorpios in general!!
i love their depth and intensity…

wish i could figure out why i am so pulled to them..

17 01 2010

I have a saturn in scorpio, haha no shit, I guess everyone who clicked on this article does. I am an aries sun and moon which is I guess the other important part.
I like this description, it’s so lyrical! I started anew at 26 due to a child on the other side of the country, and sometimes I feel just like a castle in the water haha I don’t know what that feels like, but I’d like domestic tranquility.

19 01 2010

Where is your natal Mars, and how it is aspected, this is a very important part of the equation since it is the dispositor.

24 06 2012

Interesting… I am replying because I am Sun an Moon in Aries and Saturn in Scorpio… with Mars in Taurus. I am approaching my 2nd Saturn return in Jan2014-October14……and I wonder since my natal Mars is opposing my natal saturn…. can relate on the whole to what has been said… I have overcome quite a few betrayals … am single, but settle now… I am grateful for life and the love I feel is more ‘universal’ than invested in individuals. I am going towards to be more ‘of service’ to others, those who need my knowledge and skills / help.. but just passing through my life, not there to stay. It is part of the way after a long struggle of let downs in my professional life, I have reconverted myself in the last year.
My Saturn also squares Venus (Aquarius) and Pluto in Leo (a grand cross???). I was born around the new moon in 1955….

27 01 2010

I never thought about the betrayal factor-but reading the comments it would be so true of my relationships. I have often considered the Saturn in Scorpio factor but mostly in terms of jobs and not getting recognized-overlooked and underutilized. Most times I feel like I am alone in a vast sea of political office games, and consciously keep co workers at bay, those I don’t usually stab me in the back. I have few friends, those that I trust implicitly and I work on making sure I do not betray their trust in me in anyway. My relationship with men, are done. No more betrayals for me. I would rather be alone than ever have to hurt like that again. Not sure why I chose this particular placement when coming in, but must be a karmic thing.

3 03 2010

My Saturn is also in Scorpio (3rd house), so is my Mars and Pluto (in 2nd). I believe it’s a very difficult placement.

9 03 2010

I noticed that a few people mentioned, having difficult moments at 26. Was there a movement in Saturn, that triggered some events that made life a little unbearable? I’m asking, because my Saturn is also in Scorpio. The past few years, gave been extremely difficult, to say the least.
I also understand, that Saturn is returning to Scorpio in 2012. I’ll be 30 years olf then. Isn’t Saturn returning, supposed to happen before you turn 30?

10 10 2012
Pisces rising

Difficulties noted by age can be seen in a “profection wheel”. You might not know your rising sign but the profection wheel can tell a lot. Here is a link to an interactive one where you can drag your rising sign to the 9 o’clock position on the wheel to set up your “houses” correctly. Birth is the age of your first year. Each birthday graduates or profects to the following house.

Then on wikipedia you can see the different types of houses. Not the signs but what type of house whether angular (1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses) or Succedent houses which succeed the angular houses (2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th) and then the Cadent houses (3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th houses)

Cadent house years are typically difficult and those occur for the 3rd house at ages 2,14,26, 38 & 50. For the 6th house it occurs at ages
5, 17, 29,. 41 and 53. For the 9th house it occurs at ages 8, 20, 32, 44 and 56. For the 12 house it occurs at ages 11, 23, 35, 47 and 59.

Remember to take into account the RULER of the house you profect to.
If you profect to a Mars year that can often times mean surgery or a year where your warrior spirit is seen. If you profect to a Jupiter year it might mean weight gain, furthering education, money gain, etc. So knowing the RULER OF YOUR YEAR is an important piece of knowledge. Then you look at the SHAPE your ruler is in and aspects to further delineate your chart.

16 03 2010

As the older Saturn in Scorp who had the pluto transit and the SAturn return years ago, welcome it, by this you will know the meaning of who you are…yes, growing through betrayals, but beyond that it is a deep alcheical process, out of which you emerge a teacher. it actually is a good placement for depth. it changed my life totally, moved me around the world and onto a massive spiritual path, roll it on.

9 04 2010
Cobble Stone

I never expected more responses. Recently I’ve been actively lowering my walls (not too much) to try to gain valuable friends. Alot of good people have come into my life who i want to know for a long long time, and i finally have a job i enjoy where the money is right, and i’ve held it for longer than any job in 3 years. my venus and mars conjunct in leo are sextile my saturn and pluto. pluto libra saturn scorpio conjunct. the scorpio conjunction is also sextile my neptune. neptune trine venus and mars in leo, trine moon aries. mild moon aries pluto opposition (so i struggle with my own urges to betray as well). As far as relationships with the opposite sex go though…..i prefer a good deal of warmth in relationships, i used to give it and get it, and yet now i can’t really let go the way i used to. and so i can’t give it. and so i don’t get it. kind of forces celibacy on me, given that emotion is what turns my on, its also my achillies heel, so to speak, it can completely destroy me. hope this answers your question.

18 04 2010

Quite fascinating. I’m 26 and can relate enormously. I’m feeling especially at a “stuck” point and am looking forward to outing these volatile issues that seem to have been stirring unseen for quite some time. I’ve lived in many places, held many jobs, and really want to have a sense of stability in terms of seeing my path in a meaningful light. Long-term celibacy has come down to self-preservation at this point and I feel it will go on as long as it needs to… I’m less and less concerned about coming across as a cold-hearted bitch: I communicate my intentions clearly and compassionately – I am beyond over the sexual manipulation I have been prone to in the past. That said, I pay attention to the signals I give and clarify intentions promptly, and even if it seems I keep others at arms length, some perspective is necessary for discerning motives. Of self, and others :)

2 06 2010
cobble stone

yep. i try to go after emotionally unavailable types, if any, can’t get attached to someone who can’t love, and someone who can’t love isn’t nearly as likely to betray either. Im exhausted though. was just fired from my last job for political reasons and the reality is i motivate everyone around me at all times….like its my job. i was the highest paid rep on my team and out of my training class, and the reason i was fired made absolutely no sense. i guess it doesn’t matter so much though because the place that i was working at is failing, and will fail much faster with me gone. i learned enough about the boss that fired me to screw her over and ensure her misery…. probably for the rest of her life, to be honest, surprisingly though im really not that vengeful. ill make more from unemployment than she will employed. One thing that never occurs to me until the very end though is that people fire me because they’re jealous of me. Im a very competitive human being but as long as im performing to the best of my abilities i don’t get jealous of others. thats probably what it was though. all my boss cares about is money, and i make alot more than she does….she also cared way too much about power…something i really don’t understand. i prefer to be hidden, to be able to protect myself, etc and it always surprises me that people still haven’t evolved past high school. its funny, if i believe in all the good in human beings, i succeed, if i focus on the negative, i fail, but the negative will get me regardless, which is why i disregard it. To a certain extent i’ve given up. I just show myself to be decent in all my actions at all times, if im still betrayed, oh well. I feel guilty about everything anyway.

1 10 2012

Scorpio is the sign of “repressed emotions” while Saturn is the sign of “repression.” I think you have some geysers to uncork, my friend. An evolved approach to Scorpio isn’t about embracing your powerful ability to hurt someone. It’s more about your ability to be unbreakable when someone tries to hurt you :)

10 07 2010

Just want to understand the influence of having Saturn in Scorpio in the 7th house at 0 degrees, 45′,55. Does Libra influence this placement at all? By the way my venus in libra is at 12 degrees in the 7th, mars in virgo is 27 degrees in the 7th, and neptune is 24 degrees in the 7th ( I rounded out the degrees). All opposite my acendent in Pisces at 23 degrees. Don’t you think this is significant. By the way, I am currently divorcing my husband for unbelieveable betrayal…I am literally left with nothing. Bankrupcy, divorce, and foreclosure.

13 07 2010
Night Sky

I am sorry for your losses. Saturn has no Libra influence at 00 degrees Scorpio, it is either in Scorp or in Libra.

Don’t be downhearted though. Planets at zero degrees often mean the beginnings of things. Libra Venus usually means a good marriage, this should come eventually.

13 07 2010

Thank you, I needed some good news….blessings to you.

25 09 2010

Interesting information here! I am also a Saturn in Scorpio :) and 26 born in 84′ I also have Mars 25 degrees Scorpio an Pluto in Scorpio with Moon in Leo and Pisces Sun. But despite difficult aspects and what is said about Saturn in Scorpio- whatever comes my way in terms of what emotions and bad experiences will do to me, I’m willing to take it no matter what. I like my birth chart ;)

6 10 2010
Night Sky

Nice attitude. I haven’t met a Scorp Mars without that kind of steely determination.

1 11 2010

I am a Taurus sun, Taurus Moon, Taurus Ascendant, Mercury and Venus in Aries and Mars and Saturn in Scorpio. I don’t have very much air in my chart. I think of myself as Batman the longer I stay alive, lol. Am I ruthless? Sort of. But when I am ruthless to someone–my God do they deserve it. I just wish I could finish them off instead of just giving them a living hell for a few weeks. I’ll stay with companies for years until it hits a breaking point and then I completely burn the bridges. Still end up pushing out a good enough resume where they won’t ask for references. My relationships have been mostly nonexistent. Can’t find anyone who loves themselves enough to be with me is what I think it is. All the girls I like would rather stay in abusive relationships. So I keep flying solo. Not sure what I am living for, but I guess I’m just doing it for the love of the game. I have more than enough money to be happy and content and I keep on wanting more. Not sure why. Charity? No one is charitable to me. No one wants to help me. I don’t get it. But I still love people.

11 01 2011

hey everybody .i also have saturn in scorpio conjunct pluto in libra both in my 9th house. i’ve always felt misunderstood because “i knew’ so much and couldn’t explain how or why i knew things about people. it was like i had previously lived those experiences that made me ” guess’ things about people i never even met before. but this “previously gained” experience also helped me in my job, because my employers were convinced i had worked several years before in the field i first had a job ( tourism, 9th house ). I was hired as a manager ( saturn ) on my first job. the second job offer was also related somehow to the 9th house ( media, but higher education ) and my 3rd job is also related to the 9th house, this time i work for a foreign company. all 3 companies were convinced i was perfect for the job because i had experience but i had none :)) all i did was talk to them using my perception, intuition and logic….and i guess it worked …. If i think about betrayal…hmmm, i wasn’t a victim of it during my life, but for sure i was the one that betrayed everybody’s confidence. I wasn’t capable of keeping a committment and i’m still not ( saturn isn’t very stable in scorpio and wants only power even if it means crossing limits ).

19 01 2011

I have a Saturn in Scorpio in the 6th House, conjunct Moon in Scorpio in the 5th, and Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th.
It’s very strange, because I have a Gemini Sun, Merc, and Mars, and 29th degree Gemini Asc… to be outwardly light and airy… and inwardly feel like I’m the most sensitive person in the world and crave depth, it’s really strange.
I also feel like I can read people’s energy and motives pretty easily, and someone recently told me that Scorpio presence kind of forces people to be more real and honest and open. I wonder if that’s intimidating.
betrayal is definitely a feeling that hurts in a way nothing else ever could. perhaps it’s the gemini but i am continually optimistic and open myself up to others despite the risk of pain… and truly believe things turn out better that way.

24 01 2011
cobble stone

This is a little strange. Maybe Night Sky can shed a little light on this. All the saturn scorpio’s i’ve ever met have wildly differing experiences. Usually their lives seem to be dominated by either predator or prey, or a combination of both. I’ve got five pluto aspects total, Mars in leo (26 degrees, so at least i have face and terms) sextile, venus leo sextile, pluto libra conjunct saturn scorpio, sextile neptune and very mild (6 degrees) moon opposition. I am very very good at being both predator and prey, but in both roles i recognise that i’m allowing them to exist. Another thing is that i definitely have to control the urge to betray often, because while i enjoy pretending to be submissive i’m very very far from it, and within a few hours of being around another person, without any obvious interrogation can if i so choose destroy them. The funny thing is i never acknowledged how uncomfortable that might make another person feel, and simply understood it to be an appropriate balance of power, in other words you CAN’T betray me or ill destroy you, but you can trust me to be noble enough not to attack first. There have been very few incidents in which i attacked first, but if someone is power-hungry enough to be my direct supervisor or even their supervisor, its kind of like going to work with the guy who has a bomb strapped to his chest or who can call in a marksman at any time to spray your brains all over the room. I don’t torment people with the knowledge, instead try to accommodate them even more, treating them as they need to be treated to certain extent in order to empower them, all the while struggling to make them believe that i’m relatively submissive. Ultimately though, whether or not they’re better off for knowing me its a very patronising attitude that i adopt. Regardless, i was approaching a point, and here it is. I assumed that the Betrayal/betrayed cycle that has dominated my life and through extreme pressure has enabled me to become a human being who can thrive in an environment was simply a saturn scorpio problem. I’m starting to see that i may just have pluto problems, in general.

24 01 2011
cobble stone

ack, meant in any environment

12 02 2011
Mr. W

I have Scorpio Rising with Mars and Saturn (in Scorpio) in the first house and Pluto in Scorpio in the 12th house. I have NEVER understood what Saturn truly represents. It is such a mysterious place for Scorpio and although I have studied astrology in-depth, including Scorpio Saturn; I still do not understand what Saturn in Scorpio means. I am lost with this placement. Sometimes I find myself intrigued by my own self. That may sound crazy, but I am confused with myself at times. I know who I am, but at the same time, I am very confused with the secrets that I keep from myself. Does that make sense?

I noticed that the age of 26 came up a lot. 26 was a hard age for me. I am 27 now, and I feel like my 26th year was such a whirlwind of pain, stress, worry, happiness at times, sadness… so many emotions and experiences. It was pretty terrible. The interesting thing is that towards the end of my 26th year, things somehow became wonderful. Doors started to open up and opportunities presented themselves to me.

I have lived a lot for being a 27 year old man, and I understand what it means to feel betrayal and to always be aware of what people’s possible motives are (or our perceived thoughts about their intentions). I always go to that dark place – ALWAYS. It doesn’t matter if something is shown with positivity and clean insight. I always go to that dark place of “what’s being hidden?”. “What don’t I know?”. “What are they hiding?”. “What’s the catch?”. It is hard to explain this kind of thinking to anyone who isn’t familiar with this energy and more importantly, someone who doesn’t have Saturn in Scorpio – or another significant placement in Scorpio. Scorpio is always needing to dive deeper and uncover the unknown. This is just how it is. Maybe betrayal isn’t so much of a karmic energy in relation to Scorpio; this could possibly be a manifestation of our own energy – producing this “karma” and bringing about betrayals that we ourselves have already decided that we need to experience in order to transform. We create our own destiny, and while these placements can present destructive events to occur in our lives, it is up to us how we deal and if we decide to pursue something negative or take the easier “paved road” with no potholes.

I have always been intrigued by my placement in Mars as well. I have Scorpio Mars, Saturn and Pluto ALL conjunct my Scorpio Ascendant. I am extremely aware of my actions at ALL times. At ALL times. I know what I am capable of… and this scares me. I know the kind of intensity that I radiate and I know that people pick up on this. I am intimidating, and I often push people away with my energy. It’s not that I am doing this in a negative way, but in a lot of ways, I am negative. I know that I can hurt people – terribly. I know that I can destroy someone’s ego and their spirit and this is probably why I subconsciously and consciously (at times) radiate this “don’t fuck with me” energy… even in the most serene environments. I am doing this to protect myself, but I am also doing this to protect them. I do not want to hurt people, but I know that one look from me… a sarcastic remark, or an inappropriate comment can bruise someone deeper than I am aware of.

16 02 2011
Night Sky

You know Gandhi had Scorpio Mars rising. He was non-violent, but he had the higher moral ground, perhaps that’s why he was successful in his cause.

17 02 2011

Thats is kind of scary!

7 08 2014

Saturn represents control and discipline. It also slows down and allows you to take a good look at something without things moving too fast too see. Your description of yourself fits right in with Saturn in Scorpio. I have the same placement, in the first house, Pluto in the12th, but my Mars is in Taurus so it’s not so easy for me to destroy others. As a matter of fact, any quick, impuslive action always sets me back. They have a saying “stand up with anger, sit down with a loss.”
Even though the 12th house is the house of what is unseen, it is also the house of the occult. Pluto is very very very powerful there. This involves a natural psychic ability and telepathy if you realize it or not-you can speak to others in you’re mind and they will hear you. It gives a talent for black magic and the ability to cause happiness or suffering in others just by wishing it. Of course this is a karmic house and with Saturn in the 1st, you are very good at judging between abusing others or all out attack when others deserve it. Saturn makes that decison, Mar’s agrees and stands right with Saturn with that judgement. All of this comes back to Pluto, the disposisitor of you’re chart. The best way to utilize Pluto in the 12th house is to give to others and heal them with that same talent. We are all connected with a divine energy and quickly become cut off the moment someone disturbs your ego. Then their is no connection anymore, just bullshit in your mind that gets in the way and throws you into a lower level. Do not let this happen. Of course it’s neccisiary to fight, and sometimes even kill to defend yourself but it doesn’t change the fact that that’s the nature of the beast in others who do not know any better so in essence they have only fucked themselves and you did nothing. If someone gets into a clash with you, and they get hurt, it’s just like them running head first into a stone wall. The wall didn’t hurt them, they hurt themselves by running into it. In you’re heart, you are better than that, always connected to a divine loving energy and the ability to love others is never impeded or disturbed. The highest good is the highest truth, and love is the highest truth. Love thy enemy. Love is the most powerful force ever. If someone is successful in destroying the love in your heart, they have destroyed you on another level. NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN! Best of luck to you and best wishes!

20 06 2015

Same here :) I have Scorpio Rising with Mars and Saturn (in Scorpio) in the first house and Pluto in Scorpio in the 12th house.. Sun aquarius..

16 02 2011
cobble stone

yeah, i thankfully don’t have that stuff on the ascendant, i’ve known those who have though. I’ve really learned to control the urge to betray over the years to the point where i don’t even consider it. I learn about people, both the good and the bad, for my own protection and to empower them. the more people i help/heal in this way the easier my life becomes. because i can let go a bit. I absolutely adore the potholes, ravines, and canyons of life. I’m 27 now too though, and i don’t like them nearly as much as i used to. Its gotten to the point where seedy is just shitty, as far as i’m concerned, and i get the urge to do really really shitty things to the few people i encounter who deserve it. So i avoid them whenever possible. Just not worth it. Unfortunately all those ravines and canyons have marked me, and its harder for me to spend time around people who don’t have a significant amount of scar tissue. they’re just too boring.

16 02 2011
cobble stone

i’ve met quite a few pacifist mars aries, for the record. any threat of violence left them deeply upset. the most violent mars i’ve seen consistently was mars capricorn. saturn in scorpio in the first house though, everyone i’ve known with that placement was ‘slightly’ dangerous and violent. that is, they were more likely to fight, but they weren’t necessarily good at it. the mars cappys, on the other hands, were exceptionally competent fighters.

1 05 2011

I join the ranks here with Saturn in Scorpio. Mine is in my 9th house. Does that mean I’ll NEVER get to travel overseas for other than work? I have a noctunal chart with Trigon Lord finally in Venus. My natal Mars (traditional ruler of Scorpio) is in Pisces retrograde very near my rising.

3 05 2011
Night Sky

In the 9th this is not just “travel”, that is the more physical manifestation. The 9th is about spiritual and philosophical matters, principles.

6 05 2011
Blue Angel

I also have Saturn in Scorpio in the third house, conjunct Pluto in the third and Quincunx Juno in the eight house and sextile Neptune in the fifth and trine North Node in the eleenth.Anyone with this aspects?
So far I’ve moved more than twenty times, lived in more 5 different countries and 3 states.Then decided to go to school and try to settle down.It’s been the hardest thing ever to stay in one place and try to be happy.Career wise I found my path but relationships seem to always depress me greatly and things end after a year..There is a constant betrayal issue and i’m always scared i will be cheated on or that the guy i’m with will die suddenly(i was told by astrologer that i’ll be a widow 4 times, geee)

21 05 2011

3rd decan leo sun (aries decan), aries moon, mars in scorpio/sagittarius and of course saturn in scorpio.

I’ve seen this play out in my life by being very volatile in my youth and making a lot of mistakes, mainly from desire for sex, drugs, and fighting. It gives you a lot of guilt. Betrayal being prominent role on my part and others. Death has followed me around. I’ve experienced more deaths than the average person, including my own. I literally died. And that was my turning point. You have to chose your battles with great care. You have to be aware of how pure your own feelings are and only act on the feelings that are pure. Though you still must defend yourself for your own survival. You have to learn to compromise in some situations.

I’ve noticed children and animals flock to me. People tell me their problems. I try to help them with what I’ve learned. That is the positive way to turn this placement.

Both saturn and my mars are in the 6th house, house of work, so I’m a workaholic and my work is of a spiritual artistic nature to help others and it is done in solitude. Though when people interrupt me when I’m working I get a bit surly. haha. When you let them know nicely that’s it’s in your nature and you have to do it they are more understanding.

Reaching a higher plane of thinking, the higher mind, helps all of it. The desire and the anger will always be there but it softens it and helps you cope.

Every saint has a past. How do you think they became one?

27 05 2011

I am 26 right now, and in my natal I have saturn in scorpio (12th) opposition (and sun in taurus in the 6th conjunct descendant), saturn loosely conjunct ascendant and ketu ascendant sagittarius. From what I’ve read in the internet on these placements I presume they have shown in my life like this:
– My mother (sat. scorpio 3 – a gemini) cried when she realised she got pregnant from a man she did not like. She wanted a child though (lack of total “melting” with another person)
-6th house problems :After I was born the nurses did not tie my belly properly and I was bleeding the whole night and in the morning the doctor came and yelled at them. I don’t trust the doctors or people providing service. I know I am neglectful myself sometimes and I hate that cause it makes me feel less alive. Also I had the feeling that me and my mother were somehow overlooked and unwanted by the society. I kind of got used to that feeling, and do not demand attention, except when I am sick.
– Deaths: About two of the family members in my childhood, by the age of 18 also my father was somehow considered dead.
– Guilt: About father.
– childhood puberty: very shy, but considered responsible by the adults, that is why I was usually given more responsibility
– relationships: Indirect ways of revenge.
– sex? lack of honesty, not pleasing myself but others, using sex as a weapon

27 05 2011

Oh could you pleease write something valuable about saturn conjunct ketu in scorpio? (and in the twelfth house..) cause I beleive the ketu saturn happens every eleven years so us 1984/1985 are one of those lucky bastards. I d like to know either what characterizes that generation, or what the ” general feeling” at a time when we were born was like.

28 05 2011

Hi Mary Jane, I also have Saturn conjunct Ketu in Scorpio using Vedic astrology. They are 7 degrees apart but in different signs using Western Astrology. Mine are in my Vedic 10th house from lagna or 8th from moon.
I am a very hard worker with tendencies toward being a workaholic.

30 05 2011

saturn in scorpio here, conjunct pluto and ascendant. i can see what the writer is talking about, having a stillness under pressure. as a matter of fact, i can be very still in chaotic situations as if they are not happening and it’s just a normal day. i especially love the part where it sais, saturn does not want to fight, but it does not want to die. that acts with cruelty when extreme cruelty has been imposed upon it. i wouldn’t say i’m cruel though. even when i have a good reason to be, i have a hard time finding it in my heart to do so.

16 12 2012

I, too, often think of really cruel things to do to the people I’ve felt crossed by, but never have the heart to follow through with it.

And I know what you mean about being still in chaotic situations.
It reminds me of a time I was in an underground after hours and huge fight broke out. While everyone was scrambling around, I just sat back on a couch and “chilled”, passively observing, until it was over.

27 12 2012

I find calm and cool under chaotic times a psychological advantage, I can act in any way I want to. One thing I noticed about us is that we already know what mars in scorpio is seeking to learn. Saturn isn’t stronger than mars, but he’ll sure as hell check scorpio mars if he thinks he is making a big karmic mistake. Where is your saturn? I’m a scorpio ascendant my saturn is in the 1st house at 27 degrees(conjunct south node and pluto-opposing mars in taurus).

27 12 2012

My Scorpio ascendant is at 5-degrees, my Saturn-r is at 3-degrees with Pluto-r conjunct at 28-degrees Libra. Mars in Aries, opposing Pluto.

I just always feel like chaos is my friend. Like, if Chaos was an actual person or entity, he would see everyone else running around, acting all scared, smelling their fear; picking his targets. Then he look over and see me, and I would look back at him, and we would both just nod at each other and then go about our business – trying not to interfere with each other’s work.

I can honestly say that I don’t ever go looking for a fight, but I always find myself standing up for – or fighting for – the underdog, even if it’s a complete stranger. If I’m crossed, myself, my Mars in Aries will be quick to offer up some pretty vindictive thoughts – and sometimes even pretty vindictive behaviour – but Saturn is always there to say “you know that no good can come from acting out on these thoughts.” Inevitably, my Scorpio Ascendant will find a way to “sting” myself, instead.

So for the most part, I’m always stuck in this place where I feel like my life would be more fulfilling if I became that “Al Capone” archetype – where I was vicious and brutal in my efforts to get what I want – and just became a mob boss, instead of always surrendering to the “kind” and “gentle” side.

But, there’s Saturn – once again – asking me “are you sure that’s what you want this life to be all about?”

8 06 2011
White Spikes

Hey guys, found this thread to be particularly interesting. 26 years old here with sun in libra, pisces asc, Saturn in Scorpio conjunct venus in the 8th, mars and jupiter in the 10th in capricorn both square my moon in the 1st. To say I am quite the animated character is an understatement. Was reading the comments and saw that betrayal was a big topic. There have been moments of betrayal in my life most notably with friends. Relationship wise I believe I have been quite lucky, meeting good women who are quite stable. However, I am the one who usually does the betraying. I was controlled by my vices up until quite recently (sex, drugs, alcohol) the dark side.. I think it wasnt until recently my mars in Capricorn put a halt to everything and wants me to focus on my career (10th house mars). Think of Saturn in Scorpio is like a stick, when you pick it up you are picking up both ends. On one end is the negative expression of scorpio and on the other side is the positive expression. I believe we (saturn in scoprio) really need to focus on the positive to make the most out of life. This is no easy task though; it requires sacrifice and I believe through that we can experience the more positive expressions of saturn in scorp. On a side note, I am also a big believer that we attract the energy we give out. If you act to protect yourself from being betrayed I can ensure that you will attract that which you seek protection from. Learn to live and love with an open heart as hard as it maybe and I promise you will be fruitfully rewarded.

8 06 2011

Hey White Spikes, with Pisces rising that would have your Scorpio in your 9th WHOLE house. Have you had difficulty completing higher education? I can do bits and pieces but it’s always interrupted. I am Pisces rising with Saturn in Scorpio too.

Anyway I have found that whole houses are more accurate for me but still like to check with others for their opinions too.

26 06 2012

I’m sun libra, scorpio ascendant and scorpio in saturn and have had great difficulty with completing higher education! I’m still a chart newbie so i don’t know whether it governs a whole house for me but this september will be the third time that i start a new course. And it’s not because of me, I actually have achieved high grades in my previous studies, its just these unbelievable (to say the least) obstacles are being thrown right in front of me.
Also the betrayal thing is pretty accurate too, I’ve been betrayed more times than i can remember.

9 06 2011
White Spikes

Hey Amy, I am in the last decant of pisces rising, i believe it was 28 degrees or something. so the whole 9th house is actually in sag.

my first two years in university was fine, full course load and passed everything. It wasn’t until I met a certain group which diverted me off track (vices) and being a pisces rising it certainly clouded my judgement. Well two years after I went back to school and finished it up, a 3 year program took me six years (i technically took two years off) but anyways. I feel that having a pisces rising you MUST develop a no BS personality, because we empathize with everyone and delude ourselves to follow or what not. Anyways, I cleaned up my act and now planning to enroll for graduate school to make the most of my bright but easily distracted mind!

20 06 2011

Hey guys.. its so interesting to read and understand so many peopls life.. Mine is little unique i guess.. i have saturn in scorpio and Mars in Aquarius.. basically an interchange between the houses of mars and saturn.. i also have Pluto conjunct saturn in the ascendant.. so the chart is like saturn+pluto in scorpio ascendant and mars + moon in aquarius.. Could anyone guide me what kind of future i will have and how big can i do in life… please help me friends.. thanks

9 07 2011
Wendy Chapman

Hi, Everyone!
Reading your stuff about betrayal is SO comforting to me….it’s like feeling
part of a secret society! You either understand it or you don’t. I love the
Scorpio energy-we know we are DEFINITELY alive and vital. It’s the highest
highs and lower than it goes. Always,a choice….every minute of our existence. I approach life like a secret agent(or like a set director in an Alfred
Hitchcock movie!) Anyway, in terms of choosing the high road…or the low
road, I try to live it ‘from the end’…asking myself,” When I’m on my deathbed reviewing my life…what decision will l want to have made,here?”(Death ALWAYS enters the picture for us,DON’T IT???!!)Scorpio can
heal people…or drag ’em down to the Underworld. With power comes responsibility, I guess. Anyway, thanks again!

30 07 2011
Caitlin Knowles Smith

Another Saturn in Scorpio here, of course. I am 28, experienced HUGE life changes this past couple years but got through with my marriage intact, thank goodness. Married nearly 8 years now . . .

I actually LOVE my Saturn in Scorpio. I am a Pisces, moon in Gemini, so I feel like my Saturn in Scorpio gives me a backbone of steel that I need, a certain canny will power, makes me stronger, more determined to survive. I am a survivor and have clawed my way out of a negative childhood background and the betrayal of parental figures to build a fairly successful life for myself.

Ever since I was a child I have had an unusual shrewdness, analyzing people and why things turn out the way the do, so as to build a happier life for myself than the one I grew up in. As a teenager i read self-help books in my spare time. I found them comforting. I made rules for myself to follow in dating. Every move is careful, planned, calculated. I am still a very analytical person. That is my moat, my defense. And mostly, I feel it has worked out for me.

My husband has said that it is off-putting when I put my “wall” up– and I have also been called too aloof, too reserved– but I like myself the way I am . . .

5 02 2012

Wow… Reading thru all of these comments has really jolted (for lack of a better word) something inside of me. I found this post googling “Saturn in Scorpio” to get a sense of what to expect during this coming transit. Your description was excellent and I do feel a greater sense of understanding its effect on society even though you spoke mostly in terms of the natal chart.
I feel that we are going to see a lot of bloodshed and violence in this cycle. Just as a lot of the “cutesy” little lies and phoniness that characterized most relationships couldn’t withstand Saturn in Libra, a lot of the deceit and treachery that characterizes daily life will not stand the test of Saturn in Scorpio. Scorpio is an investigator, mistrustful and suspicious and wanting vengeance on the liar. We’re going to see a lot of revenge as liars/thieves/evil are outed during this cycle.

24 06 2012

Am curious about what ‘energies’ to expect of a second saturn return with Saturn in scorpio opposed by Mars in Taurus, squaring Venus in Aquarius and Pluto in Leo… Just to prepare myself … Jan 14 – Oct 14… Have had quite a tough life already… and I think that I am very grounded considering my life path… but.. health is a concern currently, after overcoming challenges after challenges in professional and personal life.

14 07 2012

I got Mars(16 degrees),saturn(9 degrees) in 1st house , Pluto in Libra which is my ascendent is at squeaking 29 degrees. born in 1984 with a cancer sun in 9th house. My venus is in leo.

I just was not able to be in relationships,I mean any relationship for that matter.
No clue to why this is having pluto and saturn closely is a constant battle.
I like people(saturn) but do not want to be close to people this is pluto i guess.

The most valuable lesson i learnt is protect “yourself” during the saturn in early Libra transit there after it was all dark and broody just recovering.

Any one born as a late cancer in 1984?

31 08 2012

Why is everyone 26? I’m 26 too. Any significance,, seems strange.

9 09 2012

I am also 26, Scorpio sun, and Saturn in Scorpio. I would say almost all the friendships I’ve ever had have ended in betrayal, and people tend to find me aloof and insensitive (although I am quite sensitive, just not to everyone’s daily plights). I don’t know what all this Saturn return stuff means, but I hope it means something good for my life. 25 wasn’t a good year, 26 was worse, so here’s to hoping 27 is something better.

7 10 2012
Pisces rising

27 menas you profect to a 4th house year so the ruler of your 4th house tells you what kind of year you will have. Knowing your rising sign is important too. I know a person with Sun and Saturn in Scorpio and he’s Sag rising. He’s not good with boundaries with others. Your rising sign and ruler of your 4th house will tell your personal story for the year and aspects to those points (rising and ruler of 4th)

9 10 2012

My rising sign is Capricorn

9 10 2012

My fourth house ruler is Taurus

10 10 2012
Pisces rising

Capricorn rising and profecting to 4th house at your 27th birthday means Mars rules your next year after your upcoming birthday. Mars years can be tough. Your Mars is weak in Taurus and in your 5th whole house. That can mean difficulties with children or perhaps a C section if pregnant. You’ve been in a Jupiter year at age 26 which makes it easier for your profection into your 3rd Cadent house at your last birthday in 2011. Jupiter can mean abundant blessings or weight gain or higher studies or religion.

2 10 2012

I know a guy who has saturn in scorpio and he plays mind games with me by trying to make me jealous when talking to other girls. Then if i dont flirt with him and boost his ego he punishes me by ignoring me or keeping away from me. He’s an all or nothing guy, i dont think he can ever be friends with a girl he’s either got to have them or not have anything todo with them if they dont boost his ego. The other day i happened to be talking to one of his friends at work, he noticed and had to shout from across the room to interupt our conversation. It’s like he got jealous that i was giving that guy attention instead of him. It’s sad because i do like him as a person when he doesn’t play mind games but he spoils it when he starts to act stupid.

27 12 2012

That kinda sounds like me. I’m an Aries. It’s not that I purposefully cut myself off from a female because she doesn’t boost my ego, it’s more like I don’t wanna talk to her anymore because shes not making me feel the way I want her to make me feel. I take a girl boosting my ego as part of the flirting process, and if she fails to do so-I will get the idea that shes not interested and withdraw to save face from making myself look stupid. Same thing with wanting things now. If I show a female I’m interested and I don’t seem to be getting anywhere, I’ll go somewhere else. I doubt hes playing mind games. He probably just has too much pride and has been hurt before and doesn’t wanna set himself up to be hurt again. He sounds just like me, so I figured I’d give my input. What are his placements?
Aries Sun
Moon Saggitarius
Scorpio Ascendant
Mars in Taurus
Saturn in Scorpio

27 12 2012

I think that Saturn in Scorpio is here to teach us about the nature of human sexuality.

I don’t consider it “game playing”, I consider it “learning by trial and error.”

Nobody wants to be frustrated or confused, the just wanted to be accepted and loved. But there always seems to be a power struggle in relationships, mostly because of insecurities about being abandoned or neglected. At the very least, we all have our own agendas about where we want our lives to go and will often (subconsciously) try to manipulate and control others into bending to meet the images we hold in our mind’s eye.

With Saturn, the Teacher, in the sign of sexuality (sex, death, etc.), there often seems to be some kind of “punishment” in the area of relationships because it’s always testing the foundation – trying different things – and sometimes breaking things or making a mess in the process.

29 12 2012

Hi Tim i understand what your saying because of the reasons behind it but what i find strange with this guy is that he’s good to flirt with any other girl at work but when he’s around me..then forget it! It’s almost like he doesn’t want to give me the satisfaction by being friendly with me and instead acts cold and aloof. I’m always warm and friendly to him but it seems like he couldn’t care less!

I’ve come to the conclusion to write him off now. He’s had all the chances in the world to talk to me in a normal way but instead he’s all cloak and dagger with me. I’m done with him!

His placements are:
Sun: Aries
Mercury: Aries
Venus: Taurus
Mars: Aries
Jupiter: Sagitarrius
Saturn: Scorpio

29 12 2012

Oh and i forgot to mention his Moon is in Virgo.

29 12 2012

I also have:

Sun – Aries
Mars – Aries
Venus – Taurus
Saturn – Scorpio
Jupiter -Sadge
And my Mercury is at 26-degrees Pisces (so almost “Aries”).

Was this guy born in March ’83 by chance?

It’s exceptionally easy for me to be flirtatious and sexy with girls I’m not really attracted to but then I completely fall apart with the girls that I am.

I almost can’t help but attract the women I’m not really interested in and the women who I’m afraid of being “written” off by are the ones I end up dropping the ball with every single time.

This guy really, really likes you, it’s just that the energies won’t allow him to express it correctly.
Or at least in a way that “flows” in congruence that allows you to “receive” his affections in the way he wants you to.

29 12 2012

Just as an expansion:

It’s like I can talk about the things that are happening on the outside of me with relative ease, but when it comes to expressing my “self”, I often find myself using “inverted” expression.
So where I want to be taken seriously I’ll sound like I’m joking, and where I want to be silly and playful I’ll come across in a serious tone.

An example was in relation to this girl I met who was a hostess at a poke game I used to go to. When I met her, I was immediately attracted to her – because of the way she looked and the way she joked around with people was similar to the way I do.
At first, when I didn’t know much about her, I was quiet around her, only throwing out light-hearted comments here and there so to make sure I came across as friendly.
Then, as soon as I found out she was living with a long-time boyfriend, I opened up completely and became very flirtatious with her.

The “inversion” being that she was “taken”, which gave me a sense of “freedom” in my expression (it didn’t matter whether how she received me because there was a “safety net” for rejection [she was already in a relationship[).

Then one day one of the other players made a comment about their relationship, and they both kind of joked about how they WEREN’T “together”, just “living together”.
And in that moment, I froze up again. I didn’t have access to the fun, flirtatious energy that was available to me when I thought I couldn’t fail (or at least “failing” didn’t matter).

There is something about these placements that make us appear very “cold” or “aloof” towards the people we really are excited about and much warmer and friendlier towards the people we’re actually indifferent about.

It really does feel like a “curse”. Like, some how we messed up REAL bad in a previous life and now we’re being punished by having no practical way of reaching out goals. Like things we want and are attracted to are always being dangled right in front of us, just out of reach. And just as we think we’re “almost there”, *poof* it’s gone forever.

29 12 2012

It’s his Mars in Aries.

Mars in Aries wants to “win over its enemies”.

It’s really a very twisted thing, but if you are too friendly with Mars in Aries, his “battle” with you is going to try to push you away. But if YOU push HIM away, his “battle” with you will be to try to win you over.

If you really like this guy, you’re going to have to be more aloof yourself.
Obviously you’ve moved past him – and as any woman would, you’ll stick to your guns – but if you ever become attracted to a man with Mars in Aries again, you should really make him work for your attentions and your affections.

Trying to be friendly will make you an ally – giving Mars in Aries no reason to battle, so he’ll end up having to create a battle somehow.

It’s obviously pretty “gamey”, but to make it work you’ll have to find a way to have some fun with it. Meaning, you don’t want to be cruel with it, you just want kind of want to “give him what he needs”.
It’s just the kind of “support” Mars in Aries needs.

Always looking for a reason to go to war…


30 12 2012

Usually saturn trine sun in the same elements within synastry is supposed to be binding and a supportive element. It is better than a conunction i’ve read. But my connection to this guy is non-existant! Oh well maybe i wasn’t supposed to have a friendship with him at all!

In my own experience i’ve found water element guys to be abit too moody and vindictive so i avoid them if i can. I have alot air and fire elements in my chart so I am drawn to these elements in people. I also do prefer good down to earth people that always make me feel grounded. The funny thing is what i’ve just said about these elements describe that guy in his characteristics but he’s decided to play a cat and mouse game with me in which i do not want any part of!

29 12 2012

You know what I think it might be?
The Aries/Scorpio combination wants to battle you and test you – to find out just how much of a warrior you really are.

Personally, I don’t want just any girl as a life partner – I need to know that a woman is going to really go “through it” with me. I need to know that whether I’m an uber-successful business man or a humble cave dweller, all that matters is that she is perfectly at home and content just being “with” me.

I often find myself being anarchistic and “difficult” with people in an effort to “test their foundation”, if you will.
I want to break down all of their expectations about what they believe a relationship is supposed to look like so that we can build a very special/unique “king and queen of our own empire” kind of thing together.

I don’t want to just “play the game” of being attracted to each other, going on dinner dates and to the movies in a long, boring courtship that leads to getting a house together, having kids and doing whatever it takes to “send them off to college”, only to later have them repeat the same old boring shit.

I want a woman who isn’t afraid to let go of “the standard”. I want a woman who is prepared to just one day leave EVERYTHING behind, on a whim, and just go wondering off with me somewhere neither of us have ever been before; experiencing things that are far off the beaten path, all in an effort to expand on who we think we are.

So, aside from being a little bit of a “fool” when it comes to being friendly and flirty with the women I’m attracted to, I have to believe that it’s all in an effort to “crack through” superficial shells, trying to get to the meat of their spirituality.
Trying to find the one girl who just… “gets it”. The one who forces me to stop “the game” because I’ve finally found what I’m looking for.

I really do believe this guy has a strong attraction towards you, and that’s why he acts like a glitchy, hay-wire mess when he’s around you.

I bet after being “written off” by you, he’s left feeling more frustrated and disheartened than anything.
Something like “I was really hoping she was the one.”
It’s not his intentions to push you away, he just has a very unorthodox methods in finding what it is that’s correct for him, and almost no way of explaining himself in a clear way.

At least, having almost all of the exact same placements as him and having gone through what I assume is pretty much all of the exact same relationship woes, that would be my interpretation of things.

I hope I’ve helped more than I’ve overwhelmed.
I’m sorry for my excessive chatter.
I’m only interested in helping (but with Mercury in Pisces next to an Aries Sun, communications can be a lot like a damn bursting and water exploding everywhere, all over everything).

Ok, I think I’m finished (for now).

Take care.

29 12 2012

HalfwayToButterfly thanks for the reply! Your explanations make sense to me, i completely understand that the whole way he expresses himself is coming across as wrong, he really does come across as serious even when he’s joking! You both pretty much have the same placements as he was born in March1983 aswell! I can’t believe i’m talking to someone who has the same placements as him..this is awesome!

Believe me i am very analytical and i’ve analysed his behaviour many times and given him the benefit of the doubt. I thought if i would continue to be approachable and friendly to him then eventually he would open up to me and see that he’s got nothing to be afraid of. I even let my defences down around him and show him my vulnerable side.

But this hot and cold behaviour from him has been going on for 5 years now so thats why i’m ready to just call it day. I see this guy at work every other day and i’ll still be polite to him if i run into him. But he’s not even meeting me half way so therefore i’ll think i’ll just avoid him if i can. I know it may sound alittle harsh but i am a very open and warm hearted person and while he continues to be cold, aloof and all cloak and dagger with me it feels too draining on myself. Theres only so much a girl can take! I feel its a shame because i thought we could have had a good friendship but like i said he wont even meet me half way.

29 12 2012

See thats the thing i dont want to be part of his games! I think its really childish. I remember a few years ago he always tried to make me jealous by talking to all the other girls at work but not acknowledging me like i was invisible. I knew he wanted to get a reaction out of me but i just thought i dont really want to get dragged into this and be manipulated or played by him its so dysfunctional!

And even after all that i still showed no resentment towards him and still spoke to him politely and made conversation etc. So at this point i think he should have understood the type of person i am. I value friendship and i just feel that he doesn’t appreciate that. I get the whole thing about playing hard to get but seriously this guy is something else. Whether i be friendly with him or ignore him nothing works.
And when i say friendly i dont mean throwing myself at him or making any physical contact with him. Infact I’ve never flirted with him so i doubt his mars in aries would do anything about it that.

I reckon he’s got more complexities going on with his moon and saturn sign. 5 years is along time for this kind of behaviour to be going on and in all this time he has shown me no loyalty. He may think he’s testing me but judging by the the way he’s been acting he doesn’t realise that he’s already been tested by me and what i think about him is not the best right now!

29 12 2012

I wonder where the differences are in our charts other than the Moon.

I’m not ever cold to anybody who is nice to me. I’ll shut down on and void the people who I feel have “disappointed” me or let me down in any way, but even when THOSE people are genuinely nice to me, I can’t help but be nice back.
I’ll hate myself for being nice back, but I can’t help but match their energy.

I certainly don’t blame you for backing away though. Nothing causes death and disease more than stress, so it should be avoided (the bad kind, at least) at any cost.

Do you remember, though, what triggered all of this “cloak and dagger” behaviour from him?
Or did he just pick it up out of the blue..

29 12 2012

It just goes to show that you can be born on the same date as someone else but you still would be a different person! ! As long as i’ve known him i have sensed that he’s always been a secretive person and plays his cards close to his chest. I think that is definitly the saturn in scorpio working there.
Btw way do you know much about saturn trining sun/ascendent in synastry?! Because i used to think we would gel easily considering my sun and ascendat are in piseces.

29 12 2012

Apologies for the typing errors..i couldn’t see what i was typing before because some of the page was missing!

29 12 2012

No, I’m sorry, I don’t know much about the topic of “synastry”.
It’s always been my theory though, that it’s difficult for a lot of water to get along.
I used to work with this guy who was telling me about his Pisces brother becoming addicted to a Cancer girl – meaning, he started skipping class to hang out with her..

I just have this image of, like, blue water and red water mixing all together. There’s no structure or form, just a lot of different coloured water mixing together just creating more, different coloured water. It just mixes, and swishes, and swashes all around. Nothing to hold on to, nothing to provide traction or support, just a mash-up of feeling and emotion being stirred up by the transit of the moon all of the time.

I think that even though he’s an Aries Sun, his Saturn in Scorpio (a pretty overwhelming aspect of my own chart) is creating a heavy “water” influence – so it’s quite probable that the play between your Pisces situation and his Scorpio energy is creating all the wishy washy instability.

I always imagined a strong Taurus energy being the most appropriate for Scorpio energy. I have a Scorpio ascendant and seem to be very attracted to Taurus people. But I dated a Taurus Sun/Cancer Ascendant once though and nearly fell to pieces.
Too much water splashing into other water.
I picture Pisces needing a nice blend of fire and earth to get the best out of them.
Like a lake side bonfire party in the summer.
Peaceful, calm, warm, relaxing, chilling with friends, dipping your feet in the water at the end of the dock or swaying back and forth in the hammock. Roasting marsh mellows over the fire.
Too much water and you get a broken damn. Too much fire and you get hot, blistering steam. Too much earth and you get mud.

Maybe get yourself an Earth (Virgo?) Ascendant – something that’s settling – with a Fire (Sagittarius!) Sun to give you a little bubble.

29 12 2012

Is that “synastry”?
I don’t know. Maybe that’s synastry.

1 12 2012
Andrew Pumfrey

All the spooky stuff posted is but one aspect of this transit of Saturn through Scorpio.
The greatest Fixed sign Sun sign’s in history ,have always been totally aware of and totally in sync with a Fixed sign’s greatest power — namely the power of organization.
Without throrough organization of one’s life ,everything in life is made harder,in some cases impossible and often completely frustrating and ultimately heartbreaking.When the wheel breaks down – we breakdown.
Watch Francis Ford Coppola’s movie Patton ,about WW.2 general and Scorpio George Patton.It reveals great Fixed Sign achiever’s including Scorpio sun sign’s like Patton was are usally ALWAYS highly organized people.
Patton is a great study in the power of organization,disciplne ,teamwork and the importance of doing quality research on an opponent’s strength’s and weaknesses.Patton doesn’t like to leave anything to chance .Likewise too, Scorpio Masterchef Gordon Ramsay in his series Hell’s Kitchen is a wonderful example of the power of organization,discipline,attention to detail,focus on the job at hand and getting rid of the dead wood in terms of personnel and bad recipes.Everything about Ramsay has a time and a place,not too mention a practical sense of organizing and completing objectives.Ramsay always want’s to cut through the bullshit and alot of Ramsay’s techiniques are simple yet deadly effective and practical in helping to create the ideal meal and restaurant.There’s a helluva lot of common sense involved in his shows .
Saturn in Scorpio asks us to get rid of the dead wood,get organized,get on top of thing’s,get real and use some common sense.Paying attention to detail saves us the frustration of having to do the job twice or even more times ,as opposed to getting it right the first time.Knowing your strength’s and weaknesses too is always a plus– it is a direction finder to help us head toward’s what we are good at .Making comment’s too that come from the heart and that can help improve others lives as well as our own too is the transformative impact Scorpio can have on our lives and Gordon Ramsay passionately and regularly reveals this heartwarming side of Scorpio.
Sometimes too ,no matter how scared one feels ,you just have to come out and say the truth in order for thing’s to change and improve.
Without a thorough and high quality based organization of/to our lives there can only be CHAOS,disappointment,lost opportunities,depression ,loneliness and despair and fatigue.
These are some of the realities Saturn in Scorpio will be focussing on over the next 2 and half years.Good hunting !

16 12 2012

I have Pluto right at the end of 12th House Libra, conjunct with my Scorpio Ascendant Saturn. Mars and Venus both opposed in my Taurus 6th House. Mercury in Pisces conjunct my 5th House 0-degrees Aries Sun which is squaring my 8th House 0-degrees Cancer moon, which conjuncts my Gemini North Node, opposing Neptune in my 2nd House (at 29-degrees Sadge). Jupiter conjunct Uranus in 2nd House Sadge as well, trining my Sun.

Pretty much my entire life I’ve been abused, neglected or abandoned by everyone.

My father left my mother while I was still in the womb. He eventually got part custody but neglected me until I was almost 2. My mom said that he figured that because I was a baby I would either not notice his absence or had no need for him.
When he did eventually start taking me with my two older brothers (every other weekend), it was like everything I did annoyed him. He would take us to McDonald’s, ask us what we wanted, and then belittle me for “always ordering the most expensive thing on the menu”. He’d even make snide comments about the situation to his friends in front of me.
He’s never supported any of my decisions, and would often use scare tactics to get me to fill the role he had for me in his mind’s eye. One time he threatened to take my computer away from me unless I got a job.
I’ve never felt at any point in my life that he’s ever actually been able to “see” me.
Or anyone, really, for that matter.

My mother moved us outside of the city my father lived in – about an hour and a half away. I’m not really sure why she did this, she kept her job in the city and commuted every day. I’d can only assume it was out of spite for my father – to keep us far away from him (he cheated on her while she was pregnant with me).
Unfortunately, because of our proximity to her job, she was often out of the house before I woke up to get ready to go to school and typically fast asleep on the couch shortly after dinner.
Nobody ever really seemed to have the energy for me, so I grew up as a bit of an outsider even in my own family.

After moving out of the city, into a small town, we would eventually move to the accumulation of 26 times (Aquarius IC?). I was often bullied in the school yard, having fights picked with me for almost no reason at all – people just didn’t “like” me. Or if they did, they liked me too much for my comfort.

Every where I’ve worked, I’ve had issues with management. Always being pressured into roles I didn’t want to do or kept away from the things I did.

Almost every person I meet has some idea about what I should or shouldn’t be doing and it’s never what I’m doing.

My whole life feels like a set-up. Like everything has been left out for me, with somebody just waiting for me to touch it so they can jump out and tell me what I’m doing wrong.

I feel like I can “see behind the veil” – every lie, every secret and every hidden agenda winks at me from behind everyone’s crooked smile – and if I don’t play along, I’m punished in some way.

So now, a couple of weeks since Saturn hit my Ascendant, I sit alone in my bedroom at my Uncle’s, avoiding the whole world – just wanting to be left alone – studying my chart, learning about things that don’t really seem to matter; things that aren’t helping me deal with the material world at all. Just wishing – waiting – hoping for something good, something permanently good, to happen me that doesn’t seem to happen to me by accident. Something that is mine. Something that can’t be taken away from me.

16 12 2012

Some additional notes after reading some of the comments and having things come to me:

I’ve always had the feeling that everybody I meet sees me as something to possess. Like, they see me as somebody who will help them get something, or to some place.

I’ve been a “house player” at many underground poker places (5th House Sun inconjunct Pluto?), and there were many situations where I felt like the table conditions were favourable for me to play in, but I would often be denied access in those moments. Sometimes I would have “too many” chips on the table and sometimes I wouldn’t be able to take a break despite having an enormous stack.
One night, I “stacked” the house manager who immediately became spiteful and wouldn’t “allow” me to stand up and leave the game. But despite his wishes, I cashed out. After I left, we got involved in a text-messaging argument which concluded with him “banning” me from ever returning.

In relationships with “friends”, I’m often just carted around like a pet. Being taken to all the places they want to go, talking about all the things they want to talk about. And any attempt I make to express myself or suggest a location is usually scoffed at or belittled in some way.

Any intimate relationship I get involved in seems to be “secretive” in some way. My first long-term relationship was with a Jewish girl who couldn’t share with her family that we were dating. The next was with a girl who had cheated on me. The next with a woman who I worked with and couldn’t be “open” about it. We would even walk down back allies if we were commuting around the city. And the only girl I ever dated that seemed to be fully available, I lost interest in despite all of her qualities.

It’s all made me quite “reserved”, to the point where I make quite the effort to conceal my “attractions”.

I wonder what the point is to me sharing all of this.

28 12 2012
Cobble Stone

Sharing all this because you’re anonymous? I just went through my saturn return. A clique of goddamn ninjas. straight-up fucking ninjas, plot to rob me, along with a live hip-hop band, corrupt cops, and people who were very high on the political totem pole. It was absolutely insane. One day i had a crew of Nord football players following me around on a bus line because after my ally crossed me, he was worried i was going to kill him. Glock on my waist at all times, just straight-up war. Yet, it never came to blows. Shadow games, they killed a pet, etc etc. I fought through it and didn’t win or lose. They lost and i lost, thats the nature of war. They couldn’t harm me though, I’m fucking indomitable. Crime is constant, and so i vowed never to hang out with shady types again. By the end of it i weighed 116 lbs from weight loss from stress. I lost a couple pounds for every day i didn’t kill someone. I didn’t harm anyone though, and i don’t mind war, it was just damn-near never ending. Nine months of it. They’re probably still afraid of me, even though I let go and don’t hold a grudge. That is saturn scorpio. I was raised on the knees of mobsters, and have associates that i don’t use for any particular reason in every criminal clique you can imagine now. Its actually just a headache. I put down the sword and found peace, and i won’t have a second saturn pass, i checked. Good fucking luck surviving though, depending on house placement, aspects, etc, you may not survive. I also never lost moral integrity, which was my first and last line of defense. War war war war war. Its lovely. I had to defend myself in my home, my workplace, everything, but now i’m so strong that whatever anyone throws at me is a joke. It was also a vast journey of discovery. At the end of it i actually healed, which i thought was completely impossible. I’ve seen more death than any ten people combined, but remember that its not just them, you are the demon too. The whole goal of the saturn return is to control and channel the demon inside of you. The bitch of the matter is that you have to LEARN the fucking demon. You have to know it so well that it can’t surprise you, and you will keep getting hit with horrible scenarios and situations until you know and comprehend your own nature better than you’ve ever really understood anything. The nature of those around you too though, to be fair. Let go, heal, and allow the demon to become an angel, because they really are the same things. However, depending on your own level of denial (mars leo’s usually think the world of themselves, i have face and terms though damnit) you may have to face the absolute worst aspects of human nature in yourself, again and again. They may come close to killing you, i can’t stress this enough. Find good associates, and allow yourself to heal. My life is lovely now, and even if i have to go to war tomorrow, the last year got rid of every goddamn flake i’ve ever associated with. My back is resting comfortably against people who are resting their own backs against me, and I’ll never be afraid of anything again. Remember that there is no victory in the underworld, just death and vice. Sounds puritanical, but it is very very true. Your own desires, greed and ambition are never ending with this placement, and each and every one needs to be identified, recognized, explored, accepted, and channeled. Happy new years, and remember, don’t kill anyone today-they won’t fucking learn anything.

21 05 2013
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12 01 2014

I have Saturn at 27 degrees Scorpio in the 1st house with Mars in Taurus-Sun in Aries. This is true to the enth degree. I’ve never felt it within me to initiate an attack to hurt anyone but I do pride myself in the victories of many battles I never started, but finished. It’s just like nightsky points out, we are forced to don the mantle of war which we dislike but are forced to carry out by abuse taken out against us which as he puts, was to completely destroy us. Many of the perpetrators had Mars in Scorpio or came in heavy numbers. I would grow confused as to why so many have hated me. In order to survive, total mastery was and is required. When the last moment came and total destruction seemed invetiable, resources to survive came at the last moment, almost as if by miracle. Through these hardships, much has been learned, and the castle, upgraded.

12 01 2014

My middle name, strangely enough, is Burcin, which in Turkish means, the strong tower of a castle. The sabian symbol for the 12th degree of Scorpio ASC describes a man standing in the tower of a castle-overlooking the sea.

23 02 2016

I love what you wrote here on saturn in scorpio; it touched my heart. I have it in libra, but my dear friend has it on his descendant in scorpio, squaring his moon in leo in the fifth and opposing his venus in Tairus in the 12th. Your analysis brought great insight into how I understand him. I wish that some day he’d read this and it would help him know himself and empathize with it….woth WORDS. Because that’s what your reading of the placement does; it gives it a linguistic form so that it can be processed in the mind, and not just be experienced in emotions. Thumbs up!

6 02 2017
Cobble Stone

So, we’ve all been through the returns now. What have we learned? I don’t think saturn in scorpio can really be conquered. I think that is what I’ve learned. You know, I’m thinking that maybe we’re all simply too shrewd. Good chance that makes us enemies of the state, of any state. Not sure….

14 02 2017

I have Saturn in Scorpio RX in the 1st house. Everything you said is true. I love competition but I would like to add that people with Saturn in Scorpio understands, either through experience or through intuition(possibly past lives?) that we understand the consequences of war and bloodshed. We understand what man is and can be at his worst-and knowing that-of course-wants nothing to do with it. All of those things are ugly hence the saying “getting done ugly”. We know what those things lead to while Mars in Scorpio has no qualms about creating terrible enemies.
Interesting that Saturn represents “experience” because I teach Martial arts and my best students have always had Mars in Scorpio. (Saturn fully experienced equipping Mars with the tools needed for battle)

I really liked how you put “Another scenario for Saturn here is that of being overwhelmed by forces which create a dire emotional situation for which it is not prepared. This is the emotional shaking which leads to emotional self control, control of emotion, control of desire, control of Mars´s anger, lust, though of course “control” does not mean repression or negation, it means control, aqueducts control water to bring it and satisfy the city.”

Well that’s actually the story of my life. The bad things others have done to me-always came by surprise and almost always by betrayal. Every bad thing anyone has ever did to me taught me a lesson. I came into this world innocent and now at 31 I’ve seen just about every way someone can try to come around on you. I’m never surprised anymore. Actually always well prepared and know exactly what to do. Rather it’s through some scumbag trying to take you for all you have in court to having people trying to do harm to your physical body just because you exist, I had to learn how to fight, learn how to use the courts to sue people, learn how to transform a man defeated by society into a man that is sharp and well prepared. Even nowadays, as smoothed out as I have the rough edges… I still have no choice sometimes but to teach somebuddy here and there that they’re not built like that. We teach in life(especially to our enemies), everything life has taught us. The older we get, the easier and easier it becomes. That’s the beauty of Saturn in Scorpio. The older we get, the easier it gets.

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